Carl Lentz appeared on the Oprah Network and said you do not need to be a Christian to be in relationship with God...

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They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and the glory of his might -- 2Thessalonians 1: 9 (ESV)

For those who may not have been paying attention within the church for the last twenty years, Hillsong is one of the largest operations of heresy on the planet. They are one of the grandest architects of Christo-tainment, which has largely replaced typical church services throughout this country and the world. It is not a church. It is a conglomerate. A corporate entity. It sells franchises throughout the world from its home base In Australia. It operates schools to teach people how to become better heretics. It operates its own music business from which it makes millions of dollars. It targets and ensnares young and impressionable Christians who are more likely to embrace the experiential Christianity it sells and the carnal desires it promotes. It is led by Brian Houston, who unashamedly wrote a book entitled, "You Need More Money." Houston is a prosperity gospel pimp. He makes merchandise of the Gospel at every turn and the result has been spectacular for him and his family.

His wife, Bobbi is equally outspoken and just as money-centric as her hubby. She protects the racket at all costs. Hillsong is a brand and the Houstons know how to defend their brand. Which is why Bobbi Houston took to Twitter yesterday to gush over the recent appearance of Hillsong NYC Site Pastor, Carl Lentz, on the Oprah Winfrey Channel. Lentz appeared on a program Oprah calls "Soul Sunday", which had the queen of new age mysticism interviewing Lentz for about a half hour. After pretending that Lentz did a great job at representing the Gospel, which he did not, Bobbi anticipated blowback:

""sadly the God haters and Hillsong haters and Oprah haters will be frothing and manifesting," -- Bobbi Houston

God, Hillsong, and Oprah? One of these things is not like the others. It is interesting and sad that in the deluded mind of false teachers that hating them is akin to hating God. Not to mention the seemingly oblivious mindset in associating yourself with Oprah, who has supported and promoted some of the worst new age teachings today. In Oprah's beliefs it is all about a spiritual experience, not a Scriptural one. Even throughout this interview she seemed to mock any sense of traditional orthodoxy; over-pronouncing the name Jesus whenever she felt that she had to mention Him. Oprah has embraced the teachings of Rob Bell, the Universalist, who believes everyone goes to heaven and there is no literal hell. So without apologies to Bobbi Houston, I am not frothing or manifesting (not sure what she meant). I am just concerned that people will watch the performance by Carl Lentz and actually think this was the Gospel. Then God forbid, they might go to his church. Because despite the fact that Carl never mentioned hell one time during the half hour, it is a very real reality for everyone. Our key verse reminds us of the parts of the Bible no one wants to preach from anymore. There is a reason why the Gospel needs to be preached and it is not just so you can have your best life now. It is not so you can overcome past hurts, build a better marriage, or feel more significant. It is that there is an enteral destination awaiting everyone and you better know where you are heading.

So I watched the entire interview with Oprah. To be honest, I felt bad for Carl Lentz. He seemed tortured in trying to find the words that will sounds as biblical as possible without alienating the host or taking a substantive stand on anything. That is a fine tight rope to walk. I have already seen people completely trash his performance and while some points have been substantive, some have seemed nit-picky. An interview is a fluid process beloved. We can approach this with grace and truth to call out what was good, bad and ugly and this interview had it all. Let us start with what was good. Carl Lentz appeared to be a humble man. He appears to often say the absolute right thing. He mentioned Jesus on more than one occasion during the half hour. He even mentioned sin a couple of times. I believe I heard the word repentance once. When asked about the Bible he said, "It's all we got." I will take that as a correct and very positive affirmation of Scripture. He talked about acceptance. When asked about ego, his answer was exceptional. That a pastor should always be pointing people to Jesus and away from himself. I do not want to be critical without acknowledging that there were parts of this interview that went well enough.

The bad however is that the correct Christianese was never properly connected to each other. There were sound bites but no substance. It is admirable to say that people need Jesus but meaningless if you are not going to explain why they need Him. The answers Lentz offered were all couched within this ethereal sense of spirituality. He said things like once you bow your knee instead of explaining why Christ is Lord. He used overly simplistic lingo like "turning the keys over" to Jesus. This dumbing down of salvation will not lead anyone to penitent faith in Christ but sure sounds sweet on the Oprah Channel. What was also bad was this joint effort to continue to malign the word religion. This is a popular refrain from false teachers who are pushing a more experiential faith that eschews the Bible. The problem is that God instituted the word religion:

Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. -- James 1: 27 (ESV)

Now, I am sure that most outfits like Hillsong do enough good deeds in the world as to appear pious but the second part of this statement is where they run afoul. They are horribly stained by the world. They embrace worldliness and try to make it hip and cool. They blend their church with the world instead of being apart from it. Lentz would probably all but admit that. It is the marketing scheme. One of the more sadly ironic moments during the interview was when Lentz actually tried to sell the notion that his church is just all about the Bible and that it doesn't need to be made hip or trendy. Carl Lentz is the epitome of the hip-relevant pastor dude that we see across this country. His church is probably the hippest and trendiest in the entire world. He preaches in ripped jeans and leather jackets to personify the hip and trendy image. The music at his church is like a rock concert and he is the main attraction. Oprah was right in referring to him as a rock star. If Lentz was sincere about wanting this to be all about the Bible then he should disavow himself of the gimmicks and bells and whistles. Stop making his church about the show and celebrities. Somehow I doubt he would even consider such a thing because deep down he must know that he has created a church that is all about the cult of personality. The problem is that he is that cult. He is that personality. Jesus? Yeah you can turn the keys over to Him man.

That leaves us with the ugly and there unfortunately was plenty to choose from. For starters, Lentz allowed Oprah to steamroll him on her new age beliefs at every turn. He just did not seem to want to be in disagreement with anything she said. Religion bad? Sure. Church blocks people from God? Yeah I feel ya sister. Perhaps the worst was when Oprah defined the Holy Spirit as "a thing, a power, a force, or divine energy." Lentz reply? "That is exactly what it is; a divine energy." Say what? What about saying He is God? What about saying that He is the third person of the trinity? What about not referring to Him as an "it?" Instead it was another Kumbaya moment for him and Oprah as they reduced God down to something akin to the force from the Star Wars movie dynasty. If that was not ugly enough, he also blew it when being asked about Jesus and whether or not you had to be a Christian in order to be in relationship with God:

No, I believe that when Jesus said that "I am the way, the truth, and the life," the way I read that, Jesus said that he is the road marker, he is the map, so I think that God loves people so much, that whether they accept or reject him, he's still gracious, and he's still moving, and he's still giving you massive red blinking lights, for chances to take a right turn when maybe you'd take a left, but I believe God loves people, and that's what this whole gospel is based on, it's love". -- Carl Lentz

I do not want to get lost in the weeds of this nuance. The question is worded poorly, reflecting this falsely sold notion of a "relationship" with Jesus. The truth is this. Everyone in this world is in relationship with Jesus. The question is what the state of the relationship is. The secondary nuance, which Lentz said multiple times, is this notion of love being offered in lieu of the Gospel. Yes God is love. Yes the overarching message is that God so loved the world. But if you stop there you have not actually arrived at the Gospel message. The message is not just love. It is repent. God loved us so much He would not leave us in our sin and unregenerate state to suffer eternally the realities of hell. That is not the love Lentz is speaking to in this interview. Instead it is a carnally based human understanding of love. To not hurt people's feelings. Read the Bible Carl. Those who He will separate out as goats will not feel very loved on that day. God is also just. The Gospel message demands the truth. There is no love without truth. The cold hard reality is that most of this world is driving off a cliff. The Gospel message tells them that they must turn from their present course in order to be saved. Carl Lentz's gospel of love wants to hold their hand on the way off the cliff telling them that everything is going to be all right. That is not love. It is pious cruelty. Jesus is not a road marker. He is not a map. He is God incarnate, sent to redeem us from our sins. How profound that Lentz has no problem saying that He is the way the truth and the life but cannot bring himself to finish the verse:

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. - John 14: 6 (ESV)

Beloved do not miss this point. The question Oprah was asking was not a technical question about church membership. She was essentially presenting her beliefs that everyone goes to heaven. That we all serve the same god. Thus, do you have to be of the Christian faith to be in relationship with God and the correct answer is yes. Many will be serving false gods but if Carl had managed to finish the verse, he would have been left with no choice but to admit that the Bible he claims is all he has, states that you must go through Jesus Christ. You must be a Christian. Continuing with the uglier portions:

Our thing is to say, hey, if you allow God, if you bow your knee, admit your need of God, and if you do that, and Lord " there's a moment where my repentance matters, and it's right now, I am handing over the keys, if you do that"I think the premise of Christianity is looking in the mirror going, alright, I'm not going to make it, I can't do enough, God I need you, and in that moment, I believe there's a rescue of salvation that you can't counterfeit any other way. -- Carl Lentz

Beloved, who is God in the scenario described by Pastor Lentz? You are! Turning over the keys only makes Him your chauffer. Salvation is not a matter of this life. It is not a matter of being overwhelmed with this life. It is not a matter of needing God to help with the day to day grind. It is a matter of eternity. It is nice that he mentions repentance here but it is wholly disconnected from any sense of why? Why does our repentance matter? Lentz danced around the subject of hell all interview long and never once mentioned it. Perhaps he just wanted to be seeker friendly. Or perhaps he understood that his host does not believe in hell. Either way, it is spiritual malpractice to use words like sin and repentance without discussing why. Because without the realities of heaven and hell, salvation becomes a temporal Band-Aid when an eternal tourniquet is needed.

Just look at the result beloved! The premise of Christianity offered by Carl Lentz makes no mention of Jesus Christ. No mention of sin and the need to repent. No mention of our desperate need for a Savior. No mention of His Lordship. His description sounds like how we believed as pagans regarding the concept of God. That when we are at our moment of need, we cry out. Like the drunk around the toilet bowl swearing he will never drink again. Like the adulterer facing the reality of losing his family. We looked in the mirror and cried out but it was all carnal. We wanted relief from our pain but we did not see anything differently. I tell the story about my salvation all the time. In 1998 I said the sinner's prayer after watching an infomercial. My life was a mess. I realized I was not going to make it. That I could not do enough. There was no rescue of salvation because my motivation was all carnal. Fast forward four years when I was visiting a church and hearing the Gospel. The Holy Spirit drew me throughout the sermon. I began to understand that I was a sinner. That I was wretched. That my sin was offensive to a holy God. With the weight of my sin becoming unbearable I crawled to the altar and said the sinner's prayer again. This time however, I understood what repentance meant. This time I viewed sin differently. I saw it as God sees it.

Beloved this is crucial to understand. What Carl Lentz believes is the premise of Christianity is not but he acts like it is. He is trying to convince the unsaved to believe there has been a supernatural change when there has been none. Just realize you need help and voila! You are a Christian! No Carl. That is not the Gospel. Perhaps the most embarrassing part of the interview is when discussing Jesus Christ; Oprah stated what she firmly believes:

"Jesus came to show the way; this is how you do it." -- Oprah Winfrey

No Oprah. Jesus is the way. There is no other way. Not through your Universalist beliefs with Rob Bell. Not with your new age mysticism. He is not saying this is how you do it. He is saying you cannot do it at all without me. He is exclusive in every sense. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess the name of Jesus Christ as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He does not need nor seek your approval. Any pastor worth his calling would flatly denounce such a false and heretical statement.

Except Carl Lentz. He agreed with Oprah as he did throughout this entire interview. Protect the racket. Defend the brand. Bobbie Houston was so proud. God? Not so much.

Reverend Anthony Wade -- October 19, 2016

Authors Bio:
Credentialed Minister of the Gospel for the Assemblies of God. Owner and founder of 828 ministries. Vice President for Goodwill Industries. Always remember that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.