I fell for the bait again...fruitless arguments...

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Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. -- 2Timothy 2: 23-26 (ESV)

I did a devotional awhile back discussing my weakness for fruitless arguments. I was involved in several Facebook groups that I thought held similar views on discernment and false teaching. Unfortunately, they were vehicles for church hurt individuals to pretend they did not need anyone as they cast stones at the bride of Christ. Let me be clear, the apostate church does not serve God but there is always a remnant beloved. We preach discernment so that some may come out from the darkness and be liberated by the Gospel. The further these groups devolved the more we began to see that there are just too many people who claim the mantle of Jesus Christ but refuse to accept teaching or correction.

I remember one devotional I had written about a certain denomination and a reader emailed me on the side to say that this particular denomination actually had two factions and I had assigned the false teaching to both essentially when only one believed in it. I had not known this and when I researched it I discovered my reader was correct. I immediately posted a retraction and corrected the devotional. My delicate sensibilities are not the issue -- only the truth of the word of God is. People ask me all the time how I would feel if someone criticized me. First of all that happens all the time, and secondly, if I am speaking incorrectly about what God has said I welcome any correction. From my true brothers and sisters I expect it. I say these things as a backdrop to a recent conversation I had with another self-professing Christian on a "Christian" website. In this new world of malleable truth and shades of grey it is interesting to watch deception in action and what we need to guard against in our own discussions with people. The point is not to embarrass this person or point her out so there will be no link and I will change her name to Betty. Let us reason once more beloved:

"Satan is wasting his time? I don't think so. Neither does Jesus, who said the devil is here to steal, kill, and destroy." - Betty

"That verse is not referring to the devil but false teachers" - Anthony

Now the truly sad thing is that it appears that Betty and I agree substantively on the subject that was at hand. That said, one of the most commonly butchered verses is John 10:10 which says the thief comes to steal kill and destroy. This conversation should have lasted two minutes but our pride would simply not allow it. The bottom line is she claims that Jesus said the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy and there is zero question that He said no such thing. He said the thief comes to do this so the only question we must answer is -- who is the thief? The surrounding context is about Jesus being the true shepherd and how the false need to climb over the fence to gain access to the sheepfold. There is zero question that Jesus is saying the thief are false teachers. He is the true shepherd who brings the true Gospel. They are the false shepherds who lead the sheep astray with a false gospel. Betty was having none of it though:

"I think it can apply to all unbelievers, as in the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience, Ephesians 2:1-3." - Betty

"That is incorrect when taking the verse in context." - Anthony

Beloved, it is not our job to read into the text what is simply not there. Jesus is absolutely NOT talking about unbelievers. When we do this, we miss what God is actually trying to say. The message here is kind of important as God intended it. The difference between the true shepherd and the false is the difference between believing a false gospel or believing the true Gospel and that difference is simply between heaven and hell. This is not a debate about linguistics or pontificating about extracting some deeper level of meaning. God is teaching us through His Word and we should be concerned about what HE has to say, not what we think we can leverage the Scripture for.

"False teachers share ungodly qualities with unbelievers. Much of what's in Jude can be said of evildoers in general, not just false teachers." - Betty

"While you may believe that much of what Jude says COULD also apply to unbelievers JUDE did not say that. What you are engaging in is known as eisegesis, where you are reading into the text what is simply not there. We do not interpret scripture that way." -- Anthony

Do you see the level of dishonesty here? Her initial statement was that Jesus said the devil has come to steal, kill and destroy. I point out that the verse is actually speaking of false teachers and she now is making a new argument that false teachers share qualities with unbelievers. To muddy the waters further she brings Jude into this discussion and says that when he speaks about false teachers it can also be applied to unbelievers. Beloved this is simply not how one exegetes the bible. As I point out this is what is known as eisegesis, where we add to the text what is not there. One would hope at this point when confronted with biblical truth that she would reflect and reconsider her position but in this post-truth era we find that our pride is difficult to overcome.

"Anthony, I appreciate your zeal but in no way did I engage in eisegesis. SMH. What Jude said of false teachers is similar to what Jesus, Matthew, Luke, Paul, Peter and John said about unbelievers in general. Scripture must be interpreted as a whole. So what Jude wrote is definitely not limited to false teachers exclusively. Besides, false teachers are in fact unbelievers." - Betty

"I am sorry but while Scripture is indeed to be taken as a whole it is not meant to be mangled in the process. If Jude was not speaking about unbelievers it does not matter if Jesus etal were. When you cite Jude you speak to what Jude was speaking to. The verse in question is most definitely NOT speaking about unbelievers. There is the context we cannot avoid. Now, if you wish to make a biblical case that the devil also comes to kill steal and destroy or somehow correlate it to unbelievers fine, have at it and show your scriptural support. Bottom line is the verse in question is NOT dealing with unbelievers or the devil. No matter how much you may want it to, it simply is not and you damage what God is actually trying to say, which is kinda important." - Anthony

Now she tries to move the goalposts back even further. Remember her opening statement was that Jesus said something He did not say and then that false teachers share qualities with unbelievers. Now she is merely claiming "similarity" between what Jude said about false teachers and what the Gospel writers said about unbelievers. Even if there is that does not mean you make the absurd and illogical leap to then say Jude was speaking about unbelievers. Here is just one verse from Jude:

For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. -- Jude 1:4 (ESV)

Now it is obvious that unbelievers deny Christy but they have not "crept in" nor do they pervert grace. They deny everything because the things of God are foolishness to them. She ends this nonsensical point by saying something wholly obvious and not germane to the discussion. Of course false teachers are unbelievers. If that was her opening point it would have only received an amen from me but she insisted that Jesus Christ said something He most certainly did not say. That point has been long lost in the morass she has created in trying to defend the indefensible. Her deception now becomes more evident:

"You made your point, it's unconvincing, and I disagree. If you want to think that false teachers aren't unbelievers, that's your choice. I haven't "mangled" Scripture and will continue to evaluate doctrine based on the whole of Scripture and not proof-texting. BTW, the devil is working in all unbelievers, including false teachers, as the NT writers affirm." - Betty

"Clever but deceptive. Now you are mangling what I said and I assume on purpose. I never said that false teachers are not unbelievers but you take a huge and absurd leap to then assume that everywhere someone speaks about false teachers you can apply it also to unbelievers. Exposition does not work like that. What is hysterical is the only one proof texting is you. If you wish to continue to make a fool of yourself have at it. No disagreement on your last statement, of course nowhere had I said otherwise." -- Anthony

Now I ask you beloved; where did I say that false teachers are not unbelievers? That's right; I never said that. The truly sad thing is that she has engaged in the very thing she accuses me of, proof texting. When she got caught misusing the text she dug her heels in and refused to even consider correction. This is a very dangerous mindset beloved for all of us. Jesus says when you convince yourself that your darkness is light, how deep is that darkness! This brings us to the key verses for today. This is God teaching us to not engage in foolish and ignorant discussions which can only lead to quarrels. While my intentions were good for the first couple of exchanges I should have left it there. God does not care about my intentions; only my obedience. This is the blueprint for a foolish and ignorant discussion. The initial statement was foolish and her defense was ignorant of scripture but more importantly, not willing to consider being corrected. Once that is established in it is incumbent upon us to not partake in the quarrel to come. I should have planted the seed of the true word of God and walk away, allowing God to be God. Unfortunately, this went one more exchange deep:

'"I took your words at face value, not "on purpose." You said: "The verse in question is most definitely NOT speaking about unbelievers." False teachers ARE unbelievers, so you are wrong. Anthony, I know you mean well, but you're only digging yourself deeper here. You have no scripture to back up your idea that Jude's words cannot apply to unbelievers, even though Jude is speaking of unbelievers. I called you out on it and now you're probably embarrassed. That about sums up this "straining a gnat, swallowing a camel" discussion. How'd that camel go down? ;-)' - Betty

"Save your faux condescension and consider the people you mislead. You have been corrected multiple times yet continue to stomp your feet like a spoiled child and insist on your way. God does not work that way and neither does expositing His Word. You are wrong on every level of this conversation and I beg you to seek someone in authority to clarify it for you since you clearly will not listen to me. Take care." - Anthony

"C'mon. You haven't "corrected" me. I'm not wrong and I think you know it. No reputable theologian would argue your point. You tried to float the idea that everything Jude wrote could never ever apply to anyone but false teachers. Then you said false teachers aren't unbelievers, and then you denied you'd said that. That's it in a nutshell." - Betty

Do you remember what the initial disagreement was even about? It was that John 10:10 is speaking about false teachers and not speaking about the devil. The verse she is now speaking about is somewhere in Jude and I dare anyone to read it and declare it is speaking about unbelievers. It simply is not. The heading for the entire subsection is even entitled "Dealing with False Teachers." Betty declares I am wrong for a position I never even took. Jude is not speaking about unbelievers but she remains unmoved because she never even considered that she was wrong. Her misuse and misunderstanding of the camel and gnat verse shows that this is how she treats scripture. Like it is her personal plaything to mold and shape into how she feels it can be applied. It is not surprising since this is how modern churchianity teaches people. That the bible is all about you. How you feel. What has happened in your life. How it can applied to your problems. Except that is not how we should treat the word of God. It is always about Jesus and His story. The verses apply to Him and His Gospel.

But not for Betty. For her you can say whatever you want and change what God is saying at your whim. My job is to correct in love and move on before a foolish argument can fester. I had become much better with this of late but this serves to remind me how quickly the flesh can rise up. Speak the truth in love and move on. Remember what manner of spirit you are beloved. I know I will keep trying until Jesus takes me home.

Reverend Anthony Wade -- October 29, 2018

Authors Bio:
Credentialed Minister of the Gospel for the Assemblies of God. Owner and founder of 828 ministries. Vice President for Goodwill Industries. Always remember that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.