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Disgusting Accusations, Conspiracy Theories, and Lies - The NAR COVID Position

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Next let's deal with the deeper conspiracy theories. Fauci has no vested interest in the virus and the insinuation that the other political party does as well is yet another disgusting accusation Idleman needs to repent of. Then Shane repeats the insanity from the president about a drug that has already been disqualified through trials to have any efficacy on COVID. Now Shane needs to realize that he is not a doctor, heck at this point he is not even a pastor. The fact that hydroxychloroquine was approved for decades for lupus does not mean it is safe for everything! There is a reason why these are only obtained via prescription! Please, just once can those representing the church not be the stupidest people in the room? Do you realize the vile accusation Idleman is making here? His is accusing Dr. Anthony Fauci, Bill Gates, the WHO, the CDC, which Trump runs I might add, and the entire Democratic Party of conspiring to prevent hydroxychloroquine from being given to the people because they would rather make money from the eventual vaccine. So he is essentially accusing all of them of killing over 200,000 Americans so far for the potential payday of a vaccine. That is a spurious and disgusting accusation that has no business coming out of the mouth of someone claiming to be a pastor.

"There are numerous other stories as well, such as doctors being told to write COVID-19 as the cause of death even if it was not. The San Diego Tribune ran a story quoting Supervisor Jim Desmond as saying, "We've unfortunately had six pure, solely coronavirus deaths--six out of 3.3 million people." I'm not minimizing even one death, but there is a greater chance of dying just walking down the street than from COVID-19 in most parts of the U.S. What about the increased suicide rate, the alarming divorce rate, the surge in alcohol and drug addiction, and the fear that we are instilling into our children? Should we not take these into consideration as well?" - Shane Idleman

So as Christians we should not care about 200,000 dead people because someone might get divorced? I thought we were the "pro-life" people? I might add that Shane really misses the point here because of the purpose driven teachings he has been corrupted under. The government order deals with the hour and a half gathering they have on Sundays. There is no prohibition on pastors from shepherding their flock. Pastors can still do marriage counseling and personal intervention for example if someone is suicidal. The church can still provide outreach and addiction counseling. They just cannot gather inside with crowds of people to prevent them from getting sick.

"At What Point Does the Church Take a Stand? Thank God for people like John MacArthur, Rob McCoy, Jack Hibbs, Ken Graves and others who are fanning the flames of boldness. If some churches don't open soon, they won't open at all, especially once flu season arrives and those who have the flu will then be suspected as having COVID-19. The agenda is crystal clear to those who are looking through the right lens--a biblical lens. But what about submitting to authorities? In America, the Constitution--which our elected representatives are to defend and administer--is our governing document. The context of submitting to authorities in 1 Peter and Romans 13 is that the government would punish those who do wrong and commend those who do right, as well as uphold the Constitution (in America's case). Many of our politicians and government officials are actually doing the complete opposite--and they're defying the Constitution in many ways. "Additionally, it makes it very hard to submit to governing authorities when they do things such as legalize pedophilia here in California. What would God say about that? Are people suggesting that God wants us to submit to that type of authority?" - Shane Idleman

They are not fanning the flames of boldness. They are just being disobedient because they want their purpose driven hour and a half back on Sundays. There is nothing biblical at all in this stance. The Constitution is not the bible. God could care less about our Constitution. The other inherent flaw in his logic is that it is his opinion that the government is not punishing the right people. Again, he has a preset political opinion that he is trying to shoehorn the bible into. As for this last charge, Idleman heard this either through Fox News or Facebook memes once again. California is not legalizing pedophilia. That is absurd. They recently changed a law that allows judges to yield discretion on whether someone belongs on the sex offender registry. The way it originally was the judges had no choice. For example, if a 19-year-old had consensual sex with a 17 year old and was convicted of statutory rape, they would have to register. Now the judge can punish the crime and decide to not stigmatize the person for life. Now, maybe you disagree with this decision. You have the right to do so. The remedy in our system is the vote. We decide who represents us. Civics lessons aside, let's deal with the realities here. Once this law passed, political forces decided to trump it up into the pedophilia charge. They created memes and flooded the right-wing air waves. Lazy Christians such as Idleman assumed their sources are always right and months later he is still selling this false story as fact. This is what happens when the church is co-opted but carnal political forces.

'I have a hard time seeing how we are supposed to capitulate to reckless oversight under the banner of "submitting to governing authorities" when those authorities are in clear violation of our governing document, as well as God's Word. They are trying to silence the voice of truth. In Acts 5:29b we find that we must submit to the highest authority: "We must obey God rather than man!"' - Shane Idleman

Beloved. This is not how the bible works. We do not get to decide on our own when we will obey and when we will not. We trust that God is in charge and will use even the greatest evils to His ends. If we were to ignore Romans 13 every time we felt the government was violating God's word then we may as well tear that page out. We rely on the absolute truth of the bible specifically to avoid having to make our own determinations based upon our wickedly deceitful hearts. Just look at Shane. He sounds sincere yet he is sincerely wrong on so many points and wielding falsehood recklessly. For the sake of time, Idleman now launches into several ridiculous conspiracy theories. First he charges that the virus numbers are not real. The next is this nutcase theory that the government is secretly pushing to see how much incursion into their freedoms they are willing to tolerate. The irony is delicious of course in that it is his choice for president that is in charge now! He asks why we have shut everything down for COVID and not Swine Flu, for example. Since Shane has no idea what he is talking about let me just say that the main difference is in the ease at which COVID spreads, which was not the case with Swine Flu. Ignorantly, Shane concludes the only answer must be this nebulous global agenda. Shut up please. He did however save is must asinine conspiracy theory for last:

"Many believe this is an orchestrated attempt to destroy our economy, disrupt the November elections, initiate a global reset and, ultimately, silence the churches. Peaceful protests are infiltrated by hate groups paid by individuals with deep pockets to create confusion and chaos while governments concern themselves with policing church parking lots and making sure believers don't sing. This is beyond ridiculous!" - Shane Idleman

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3 people are discussing this page, with 10 comments  Post Comment

Anthony Wade

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Please Comment

Submitted on Friday, Sep 25, 2020 at 11:04:09 AM

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Win DeWitt

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So many lies from Shane...

That I don't know where to start or even which to address. This guy is as exasperating as the rest of NAR. I think though, that these groups, regardless of what they call themselves, can no longer be called or labelled as "the church". Clearly they are not the Church of Jesus Christ (and I don't mean the denomination). They are not the body of Christ. The true body of believers in Jesus Christ love Him first and foremost. They allow no man on the face of the earth to get between Him and them. They allow no other concept in their lives but God's Truth. True children of our Lord will leave these groups and they have and still are. Just because these fools that run these groups have rather large flapping gums, does not mean they stand for the one true God. Obviously they do not. As the Bible says, "if our gospel be hid, it's hidden to them that are lost." It's definitely hidden to these wolves in (tattered) sheep's clothing. But they have their purpose, as did Judas. The Lord intends to let the wheat and tares grow up together (any farmer and gardener knows, you can't pull weeds too early, you'll yank up the good seedling along with the tare), and then He will separate the wheat from the tares, because the time is right. We can see that happening before our very eyes! Separation. Then He will remove the chaf (the hard outer shell known as bran from the wheat). So our hearts will get softened more and more towards our Beloved Lord and the tares...well Jesus said they're only good for one thing. It's exciting yet kind of frightening to see this played out. All I know, is to stay faithful to Jesus Christ.

Submitted on Friday, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:20:41 PM

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Reply to Win DeWitt: yep

i try to refer to them as the apostate church

Submitted on Friday, Sep 25, 2020 at 4:46:14 PM

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Tobi MM

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Some thoughts...

As a reader in Switzerland, Europe, it's interesting to see how this pandemic thing is handled in the US. Clearly there's something different in how govts handles, maybe how people lives. I don't really know about the "american mentality", so i don't understand the motivations between the opposition positions for things like masks or lockdowns. Viewed from here, something is clearly politically off - not necessarily about the virus itself, more about use it as a pioneer excuse for things like digital identity concepts, rushed tested new vaccine concepts and population control - EU politics talked very open about such things the last few months.

That said, it's even more "fascinating" how those who play church handles this situation; as if stadium christianity would have worked as default anywhere before covid (China? Middle East? Early Church?...)... and it looks like they have no idea how the gospel should work otherwise. or how the gospel actually works, as said by peter "save yourselves from this crooked generation" in acts 2. or, as chris rosebrough once stated: "the great comission is not "go and make a difference", it's "go and make disciples"".

I don't really know in detail how all churches here in Europe handled the prohibition of gathering, clearly there are many different ways, but at least there's not a national/continental anathema cry of meeting anywhere without a pulpit and praise band... instead i saw many interesting things:

For example, while "Lockdown" here (March til July), a local church here had recorded their sermons, their relevant news and made a short video broadcast every week. Meanwhile they set up an online network for helping each others, while members met voluntarily in small groups in their gardens, respecting the six-person limits, and worshipped together.

I remember one comment from someone about this, it was like "dude, we even read the bible ourselves"... so, how about this verse that god works through all things... :)

Submitted on Friday, Sep 25, 2020 at 4:38:19 PM

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Anthony Wade

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Reply to Tobi MM: Welcome

awesome, what you describe is exactly what the church here should have done. But they are driven by money power and fame, they need that hour and a half on sundays. How is the virus there now?

Submitted on Friday, Sep 25, 2020 at 4:48:08 PM

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Tobi MM

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Reply to Anthony Wade: Virus here (part 1)

Virus here (in Western Europe, as that's the field i overlook without speculating) looks a bit like two parallel worlds at the moment.

At one side you have politicians, epidemiologists and media, who press on the "do something" - button, with calculations, prognoses and warnings about hundreds of thousand deaths. There's more border control than the last 30 years together and countries write each other on quarantine lists. Traveling between countries here is a bit complicated, to say it reluctant...

At the other side it looks a bit like "virus is over", even the german chancellor argued the mask rules with "to let people know that virus is not over", but really, people wear masks only where they're obligatory (shops, schools, traffic), if even, and most of them wear them not right, or even hygienic, some have them for two weeks in their bags without wash them (and brag about that in social media). Germany is remarkable; there are demonstrations about Black Lives Matter, against Global Warming and against Covid-Rules, the biggest with masses somewhere between 30'000 (Police), 1,3 Millions (Organizers) and ~100'000 (what it looks like if you watch drone footage) people - and not one of them really peaked the numbers of cases, it's always around 3% of all tests, no matter how much tests they do. Covid-Deaths in Switzerland are around 2-5 per week, a few dozen people in hospitals, new cases daily here around 300-400, and no one says if that's the number of people or the number of positive test. Statistics are complicated to read and media does not help. There are dozens of initiatives and activist groups who planned to go against restrictions and rules, some of them with arguments and honored scientists (who were thrashed by media narrative), others are pure conspiracy theorists.

Overall, people are very divided over the pandemic issue, and society seems to sit on a big pile of TNT who waits to explode in, well, maybe not riots, but definitive civil disobedience. Not all, but the underlying feeling. It's eerie silence.

Submitted on Friday, Sep 25, 2020 at 7:59:01 PM

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Reply to Tobi MM: Part 2

Other European Countries are different. The UK fights with its financially starved-to-death health system, France with the consequences of its suburban ghettos where social distancing is impossible. Numbers are nowhere like they are in the US, but they're higher than in middle Europe. Italy on the other hand, with its dramatic scenes at spring 2020, seems to do very well in number of cases - some people say it's because the strict hygiene rules, others because "no old sick people are left to die, all died in spring". Spain on the other hand looks like going straight into a 2nd wave, despite even harder rules than italy.

The Netherlands going strong against masks, while Belgium (through very hard hitten by deaths, highest number per 100'000 people) even attempt to ditch the pcr-test last week because "unprecise". The Swedish way with its nearly-no-limits (except big gatherings, sorry purpose driven church...) seems to work (at the moment), and it's an argument in all the discussions about rules for the anti-mask/anti-rules people. And Belarus seems to have no corona, they have demonstrations and police fights with millions of people after a probably rigged election, against their president (who says there's no corona and that he was offered 900 millions by organisations like WHO to lockdown his land but refused... what, coming from that source, could be not the truest statement, but should be investigated nonetheless if you ask me).

Maybe this is the biggest argument against "a world wide conspiracy by governments", cause every country here tries to do something, everyone a bit different like the others, and methods and results clearly have no correlations... it's pure chaos.

Submitted on Friday, Sep 25, 2020 at 8:35:34 PM

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Reply to Tobi MM: Part 3

In all that, people are clearly more open for the gospel, searching for answers for the big questions of life, now they have time to think without all the big distractions in society, but it's doubtful if the churches sees this opportunity, now that they are most open again with safety concepts and do what they did before all this.

It's even sadder that "going to church" in europe culturally is even less about preaching something or about community, than feeling obligated to go because you do it. Your Grandfather went to church in the village, your parents went to church in the village, so you went, because you are good. (Bible strongly disagrees). American Churchianity is clearly imported in some independent churches, but apart from a few NAR Branch - Churches, the official churches are less euphoric false than more dead (and often false though).

I remember two years ago, sitting in a church in a small village at the north sea. It was five people in a room made for 100, the guy who maintains the church, a guy playing the organ, and an old female preacher who tries to form the very few sentences about peace in the book of micah to a sermon about peace with no logically conclusion for anyone. So there were visitors, an old man, and another older man who came nearly a half hour to late - and me, who was in the town purely by coincidence. After 45 minutes it was over, and the three church officials went to the next village by car, to do the same things, and then to the next, and so through 12 villages over a month, once a month in each of the small german villages.

This is reality in most of europe countries, and i'm thankful for every preacher and pastor who goes out to those dead churches to bring the gospel, like one of the old pastors of my old church, who went to a vacant job in another part of switzerland, where people now despise him for preaching truth, after all the years with his predecessor who told them they are good.

Submitted on Friday, Sep 25, 2020 at 9:08:46 PM

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Anthony Wade

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Reply to Tobi MM: Thanks

I've always heard such nice things about living in Switzerland. If i hit lotto i might look into living there lol

Unfortunately, the state of the european church is very similar to the NAR apostate church in america. Half hour about feeling relevant to the world mixed with self-glorifying "worship" ugh

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 12:38:40 AM

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Win DeWitt

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Reply to Tobi MM: Possible reason

I think, after reading your comments (and this is only my opinion), that the reason for the uprise of NAR and all the many mega-churches is because of the deadness or luke-warmness of the established mainline denominational churches, at least here in the USA. People are looking to know God, to experience Him. Mainline denominational churches here are the same thing week after week. Come in, sit down, stand up, sing, say the same short prayer, sit down, kneel, stand up, pass the offering plate, say the same prayer, sing, sit down, stand up, (wish you ate breakfast because now you're very hungry), hear a sermon that you forget as soon as it's over, stand up, sing, hear the doxology and then thank God, it's over. The same exact thing week after week after week.

In essence there is nothing wrong or false about anything that is said, sung or preached. But, it is as boring as can be. There is no life, there is no experience of God, there is no knowing Jesus Christ. So break-away non denominational churches started en masse. Over time they became more and more popular. The wolves in sheep's clothing saw their opportunity and took over. People looking for that experience...and boy, do those wolves give them an experience! No wonder people freak out at not being able to attend their mega-church meetings because of Covid. They're like drug addicts who need their fix. Because of substituting the once a week "experience" for knowledge of the true God, they must feel like they'll die without it.

Submitted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2020 at 11:41:11 AM

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