Beloved, it is not our job to read into the text what is simply not there. Jesus is absolutely NOT talking about unbelievers. When we do this, we miss what God is actually trying to say. The message here is kind of important as God intended it. The difference between the true shepherd and the false is the difference between believing a false gospel or believing the true Gospel and that difference is simply between heaven and hell. This is not a debate about linguistics or pontificating about extracting some deeper level of meaning. God is teaching us through His Word and we should be concerned about what HE has to say, not what we think we can leverage the Scripture for.
"False teachers share ungodly qualities with unbelievers. Much of what's in Jude can be said of evildoers in general, not just false teachers." - Betty
"While you may believe that much of what Jude says COULD also apply to unbelievers JUDE did not say that. What you are engaging in is known as eisegesis, where you are reading into the text what is simply not there. We do not interpret scripture that way." -- Anthony
Do you see the level of dishonesty here? Her initial statement was that Jesus said the devil has come to steal, kill and destroy. I point out that the verse is actually speaking of false teachers and she now is making a new argument that false teachers share qualities with unbelievers. To muddy the waters further she brings Jude into this discussion and says that when he speaks about false teachers it can also be applied to unbelievers. Beloved this is simply not how one exegetes the bible. As I point out this is what is known as eisegesis, where we add to the text what is not there. One would hope at this point when confronted with biblical truth that she would reflect and reconsider her position but in this post-truth era we find that our pride is difficult to overcome.
"Anthony, I appreciate your zeal but in no way did I engage in eisegesis. SMH. What Jude said of false teachers is similar to what Jesus, Matthew, Luke, Paul, Peter and John said about unbelievers in general. Scripture must be interpreted as a whole. So what Jude wrote is definitely not limited to false teachers exclusively. Besides, false teachers are in fact unbelievers." - Betty
"I am sorry but while Scripture is indeed to be taken as a whole it is not meant to be mangled in the process. If Jude was not speaking about unbelievers it does not matter if Jesus etal were. When you cite Jude you speak to what Jude was speaking to. The verse in question is most definitely NOT speaking about unbelievers. There is the context we cannot avoid. Now, if you wish to make a biblical case that the devil also comes to kill steal and destroy or somehow correlate it to unbelievers fine, have at it and show your scriptural support. Bottom line is the verse in question is NOT dealing with unbelievers or the devil. No matter how much you may want it to, it simply is not and you damage what God is actually trying to say, which is kinda important." - Anthony
Now she tries to move the goalposts back even further. Remember her opening statement was that Jesus said something He did not say and then that false teachers share qualities with unbelievers. Now she is merely claiming "similarity" between what Jude said about false teachers and what the Gospel writers said about unbelievers. Even if there is that does not mean you make the absurd and illogical leap to then say Jude was speaking about unbelievers. Here is just one verse from Jude:
For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. -- Jude 1:4 (ESV)